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16 January 2003 (Thursday): c'mon, make me think
The mind reels backwards in time, grasping fondly at the past. One way or another school will find its way back into my life. I miss it too much. The real world feels stupid and lonely in comparison, a lot of the time.
I wrote way more than I intended in a comment on Jim's last post. It's an entry unto itself, almost.
"On racial preferences...I'm all for programs that target minorities and females in grade school and junior high, that encourage kids to think outside the stereotypes of what they're supposed to be and to consider any future possible. Hell, I'm all for programs that target white males and teach them that they don't have to live up to stereotypes, either.
"Anything else is a band-aid. Affirmative action at the college admissions level, and in employment, is just compensation for earlier failure. You look for the ambitious and talented black woman, and actively choose her over equally qualified candidates, because there are so few of her kind where there should be many. I believe that learning and work environments always benefit from diversity -- which is a whole debate in and of itself -- and that it's this principle of social benefit, not of reparation for past wrongs, that should drive any decision on the subject.
"But whose fault is it, anyway? Who claims responsibility for the failure to really solve the problem? That's the thorny issue. Is it continuing discrimination, subconscious (or quite conscious) racism on the part of those in power? Maybe. But is it possibly a failure of individuals to rise above their circumstances? A community that didn't come together to address its collective ills? A new culture that, abetted by the very phenomenon of racial preferences, comes to expect success as a birthright rather than something earned? It could be that too.
"But look, now I'm being racist.
"The truth is that each feeds into the other. Hence our quandary: preferences breed racism breeds the need for preferences. Digging this thing out at the roots is the only solution. But of course that's the hardest task of all."
posted by enjelani @ 05:54 PM PST
Replies: 7 comments
One relevant theory suggests that humans tend to have difficulty with tasks, goals, and structures that extend outside their natural working timescale, especially if it involves stepping out of an existing norm of any kind.
For example, early intervention (K/1st grade) would involve politicians authorizing money now for an outcome that isn't measurable for 12 to 16 years, when the first wave of kids make it out of the 12th grade and then out of college. Politicians live and die on 2 to 4 year election cycles, and they hold the purse strings of public spending.
The issue of racial equality is one that would take decades if, in fact, we were on the right track. But that would involve attacking the problem vigorously in K-12 for say a generation or two. A generation of disinfected, racism-free kids has to roll around to have their own kids before the problem can really be called mostly "solved." Until then, we'll have angry piss-bag racists in society, and public policy that is occasionally built on structural punishment of the disfavored race(s). "Rooting it out" isn't so easy and politicians don't generally have much spine for things that take time and aren't easy. Wicked Problem.
posted by Bill @ 17 01 2003 01:37 AM PST
Well, if you're talking about racism itself, and the way to get beyond it, it's true that it's something that would be best solved in the lower educational system and with good parenting. The problem is that it's not a policy issue that can be solved with laws or regulations. It can be bandaged, which is what the civil rights movement was all about. But that doesn't solve generations of misguided hate.
Blacks clearly are the minority still having a hell of a time finding a way out. It's because of their unique place in history. Therefore it's not a policy problem, but a sort of collective subconscious denial that blacks and whites both carry. African Americans still have problems coming to terms with the fact that their ancestors were owned by the ancestors of white people. And whites are still struggling to come to terms with the fact that their ancestors owned them. There's a very obvious scab from a very deep wound that current generations keep picking at.
No matter how many affirmative action programs you put in place, or laws you pass against racist actions, that little chunk of history can't be ignored. It takes time to heal. The civil rights movement did its damnest to curb racist behavior. I think it's done a fair to good job in that aspect. But to cure racism, that takes some kind of nationwide group therapy. That's best done while children are young and by slowly instilling in them that mistakes were made but we're all doing our best to move beyond them.
Look at me, now I've carried on and on. :) Blogs really are like college all over again. People peeking into dorm room doorways to have little conversations about the things we think about.
And I'm back on coffee, so ... sorry for the verbosity. :)
posted by Jim @ 17 01 2003 01:07 PM PST
Wrote a bit on that topic from a satirical POV in Affirmative Action: A Klan's-Eye View.
On a more serious note, Educating the Black Elite takes a relative controversial perspective; what if adult IQ is largely genetic (i.e. difficult to influence by early-intervention programs) and is the dominant factor for academic and vocational success?
Human biodiversity writer Steve Sailer has a much more optimistic point of view; while evolutionary biology HAS distributed strengths and weaknesses differently across people from different continents (read: races), minorities in America can and should capitalize on these relative strengths rather than blindly trying to emulate whites.
Where the Races Relate
posted by pjammer @ 17 01 2003 02:27 PM PST
By dogmatically (and defensively) insisting that all ethnic groups must be equal in all ways, liberal fundamentalists have stymied discussion of just what competitive advantages blacks do tend to possess, and how they could get more mileage out of them in the general job market. By dismissing sports as mere feats of brawn unworthy of intelligent inquiry, liberal intellectuals ironically overlook that black sports success reflects not just physical but, as we shall see, mental superiorities -- Assets that blacks could exploit in other careers, too. Asking four major questions might encourage a new, more productive way to think about America's racial impasse.
- Great Black Hopes
posted by pjammer @ 17 01 2003 02:37 PM PST
I just can't buy into affirmative action, at least as currently prescribed. If the aim of higher-learning is focused on achievement (as it commonly is, in my experience anyway), then have the criteria to enter be achievement based as well. Set a bar height, however arbitrary, and let those who are able to jump over it do so. If the goal is to provide a skin-diversified learning experience, then set percentage quotas and stick to them. 10% blacks, 10% whites, 10% asians, blah blah blah.
Affirmative action to me (says the middle-class white male) *is* racism. Those who are on the short end of the stick are being told "Because of the color of your skin, we picked another applicant over you. Thanks for playing!". Huh??
If you're unhappy that a certain segment of people populate the student body in less than "ideal" numbers, then address *that* issue of why they aren't being properly trained to jump over the bar. Don't lower the bar for them. What an insult...
I see the intent, but don't agree that the ends justify them. A level playing field doesn't mean you are guaranteed any points. Rather it guarantees you the *opportunity* to compete for the points...
Anyway, pretty high and mighty of me eh? Who put that soapbox there ?? ;)
posted by syndromes @ 17 01 2003 08:03 PM PST
I never believed that race exists--only prejudice & indifference. I suppose ethnicity does, which means a different cultural background. The issue here though is not about the cultural difference. At least, that's not all of it as one might *think*. Example--the African Americans. Okay, they are as American as the "caucasians" and yet they are still a minority. Why? Because of how they look--they're black. But how about the immigrants? They are minorities for a different reason--probably because of a cultural shock. It takes some getting used to and programs like affirmative action may help provide more opportunities. What do you think...equal opportunity or equal *outcome*? I believe in the equal opportunity bit because I do not believe people, even minorities should have an unequal advantage. It is true that it is usually the white men that dominates in the power area, but over the years, haven't there been a power shift into the hands of females and other "minorities" without adjustment? Certainly, minorities should be considered, but I feel like society decided to take pity on these people (me included) and for some reason, that does not feel right.
posted by yaya @ 18 01 2003 05:37 PM PST
Yes, problems start long before the college admissions and job applications. But problems also exist at that level too. And while Affirmative Action can't fix the earlier problems, it can do something to correct for the problems in the admission/applications process.
Is it the cure? Of course not. As you rightly point out, digging racism out by the roots is the cure. But I think that Affirmative Action helps to get us there by compensating for institutional racism.
People seem fond of saying things like "If they can't get in on a level playing field, then they don't deserve to get in." What people don't seem to realize is that "colorblind" admissions still carries a strong bias against the underrepresented minorites. Affirmative Action is actually leveling the playing field, not giving one group of people an unfair advantage.
More thoughts here.
posted by wink @ 23 01 2003 10:53 AM PST